Comments on: Insulin Resistance: The Real Culprit http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit Wisdom to thrive by Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:23:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Jad http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15386 Jad Tue, 02 Dec 2008 07:26:51 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15386 Yeah I agree totally, there may be big differences in a lot of milks properties raw/fermented vs pastuerised and god forbid ultra heat treated (what really freaked me out about that stuff is when I read one of Sally/Enigs articles saying that you cant make yoghurt using UHT milk as it wont support the beneficial microbes, that really freaked me out that not even bacteria can eat the stuff!). However, my point with insulin resistance is that milk helps a young baby mammal to grow faster, there are a lot of natural substances in milk that help growth hormone and insulin to work. One of these, betacellullin, is found in all forms of milk - raw, pasteurised, etc. It can bind to epithelial cell growth receptors and stimulate growth etc. Many studies on dairy consumption have found it can increase IGF and other hormones ( again on pasteurised milk , but I see no reason why raw would be different as the function of milk is to enable fast nutrition and growth in an infant mammal). This can be a good thing, eg someone underweight, or recovering from illness, or someone who has been malnourished for a while, can really benefit from it. But my concern is still for someone with insulin resistance - these people metabolisms already have issues with tissue hypertrophy and insulin excess. So anything that promotes those things I would be cautious with. I doubt many traditional cultures were insulin resistant, as they had eaten a wholesome diet their whole lives, so adding milk or not to their diet may not have been a problem. But some people, either through previous diet and activity, or through an ancestry that didnt include many of those foods, may become insulin resistant and in my opinion itr may be beneficial for them to avoid milk for a while and see how their body goes. As with anything listen to how you feel, see how things change etc. I tolerate milk totally fine and love the stuff. But I dont think its for everyone. Try and see I guess is what I mean :-) Yeah I agree totally, there may be big differences in a lot of milks properties raw/fermented vs pastuerised and god forbid ultra heat treated (what really freaked me out about that stuff is when I read one of Sally/Enigs articles saying that you cant make yoghurt using UHT milk as it wont support the beneficial microbes, that really freaked me out that not even bacteria can eat the stuff!). However, my point with insulin resistance is that milk helps a young baby mammal to grow faster, there are a lot of natural substances in milk that help growth hormone and insulin to work. One of these, betacellullin, is found in all forms of milk - raw, pasteurised, etc. It can bind to epithelial cell growth receptors and stimulate growth etc. Many studies on dairy consumption have found it can increase IGF and other hormones ( again on pasteurised milk , but I see no reason why raw would be different as the function of milk is to enable fast nutrition and growth in an infant mammal). This can be a good thing, eg someone underweight, or recovering from illness, or someone who has been malnourished for a while, can really benefit from it.
But my concern is still for someone with insulin resistance - these people metabolisms already have issues with tissue hypertrophy and insulin excess. So anything that promotes those things I would be cautious with. I doubt many traditional cultures were insulin resistant, as they had eaten a wholesome diet their whole lives, so adding milk or not to their diet may not have been a problem.
But some people, either through previous diet and activity, or through an ancestry that didnt include many of those foods, may become insulin resistant and in my opinion itr may be beneficial for them to avoid milk for a while and see how their body goes.
As with anything listen to how you feel, see how things change etc. I tolerate milk totally fine and love the stuff. But I dont think its for everyone.
Try and see I guess is what I mean :-)

]]> By: Cathy Mifsud http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15358 Cathy Mifsud Mon, 01 Dec 2008 04:34:06 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15358 Hi Jad of course you've got those two books! They're my favourite too. I was just checking because in your posts you haven't differentiated betweed raw and processed milks and Kate specifically asked about Raw dairy. We know that raw dairy is a very different food once heated or homogenised. Raw milk is also very different once its been fermented and so beneficial. Good saturated fats are so important for regeneration especially when eaten raw making raw dairy an extrememly valuable food unless a person can enjoy raw liver and eggs every day and has the time to regularly simmer up gelatinous bone broth. Yes many indigenous groups didn't drink milk, milk is a new food on the big scale of things but it sure made life easier and more enjoyable once we learnt ( supposedly from an Angle ) how to milk animals. I don't agree that milks effects are in context with our whole diet and how active we are. From Price we learn that milk should only be consumed raw and for some/ many of us consumed fermented. I find raw milk kefir and raw cheese two of the most easily digested and complementary foods with its dense vitamins and minerals so easily assimilated. I think when we talk dairy we should mention if its raw or processed before we warn against it and the even healthier option of fermenting should be explained because there is too much to lose from avoiding this food. I had a little look at studies that you mentioned on milk being insulinotropic and the two I read were studies using rehydrated milk, so it was processed. Hi Jad
of course you’ve got those two books! They’re my favourite too. I was just checking because in your posts you haven’t differentiated betweed raw and processed milks and Kate specifically asked about Raw dairy. We know that raw dairy is a very different food once heated or homogenised. Raw milk is also very different once its been fermented and so beneficial. Good saturated fats are so important for regeneration especially when eaten raw making raw dairy an extrememly valuable food unless a person can enjoy raw liver and eggs every day and has the time to regularly simmer up gelatinous bone broth.
Yes many indigenous groups didn’t drink milk, milk is a new food on the big scale of things but it sure made life easier and more enjoyable once we learnt ( supposedly from an Angle ) how to milk animals.
I don’t agree that milks effects are in context with our whole diet and how active we are. From Price we learn that milk should only be consumed raw and for some/ many of us consumed fermented. I find raw milk kefir and raw cheese two of the most easily digested and complementary foods with its dense vitamins and minerals so easily assimilated.
I think when we talk dairy we should mention if its raw or processed before we warn against it and the even healthier option of fermenting should be explained because there is too much to lose from avoiding this food.
I had a little look at studies that you mentioned on milk being insulinotropic and the two I read were studies using rehydrated milk, so it was processed.

]]> By: Jad http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15294 Jad Sat, 29 Nov 2008 00:06:09 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15294 Yes I have copies of Nourishing Traditions and Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, both two of my fave books. That being said doesnt change the fact that milk is insulinotropic, and for someone with issues with insulin resistance this may be a problem. Plenty of traditionally eaten foods are high Gi, or insulin stimulating, this is not a bad thing, but for someone with an already disrupted endocrine system they may want to cut back on these foods and see how they go. Only a few of the cultures Price studied drank milk, all in excellent health, but there were many he studied that did not drink milk and were also in excellent health. I think possibly milk is fine for the majority of people if prepared traditionally and consumed within the context of a whole food based diet (by wholefoods I mean it in the sally fallon style, not endless plates of bran and oats lol ). But that being said if you are insulin resistant you may want to give up milk for a period and see if things improve. Yes I have copies of Nourishing Traditions and Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, both two of my fave books. That being said doesnt change the fact that milk is insulinotropic, and for someone with issues with insulin resistance this may be a problem. Plenty of traditionally eaten foods are high Gi, or insulin stimulating, this is not a bad thing, but for someone with an already disrupted endocrine system they may want to cut back on these foods and see how they go.
Only a few of the cultures Price studied drank milk, all in excellent health, but there were many he studied that did not drink milk and were also in excellent health.
I think possibly milk is fine for the majority of people if prepared traditionally and consumed within the context of a whole food based diet (by wholefoods I mean it in the sally fallon style, not endless plates of bran and oats lol ). But that being said if you are insulin resistant you may want to give up milk for a period and see if things improve.

]]> By: Cathy Mifsud http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15283 Cathy Mifsud Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:54:54 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15283 Joseph Have you read Sally Fallon's info on the dangers of eating soy foods that haven't been fermented? See www.soyonlineservice.co.nz I'm sure Dr Mercola warns about it too as well as many others. Soy that hasn't been fermented for many months should be avoided. Vegetarian sausages are really bad too. Soak all your nuts before eating them. Read " Nourishing Traditions ". Joseph
Have you read Sally Fallon’s info on the dangers of eating soy foods that haven’t been fermented? See http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz I’m sure Dr Mercola warns about it too as well as many others.
Soy that hasn’t been fermented for many months should be avoided. Vegetarian sausages are really bad too. Soak all your nuts before eating them.
Read ” Nourishing Traditions “.

]]> By: Cathy Mifsud http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15282 Cathy Mifsud Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:37:06 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15282 Kate sorry me again, haven’t had so much free time in ages! Swiss Raw cheese should be completely safe for you as its been aged 6 to 12 months. Kate
sorry me again, haven’t had so much free time in ages!
Swiss Raw cheese should be completely safe for you as its been aged 6 to 12 months.

]]> By: Cathy Mifsud http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15280 Cathy Mifsud Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:31:12 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15280 Kate in last months issue of Nourished Mag there was a blog / article on Fromart cheese. These guys sell real RAW Swiss cheese and its absolutely delicious, satisfying and light! I bought some on line and I'm hooked. Never could eat cheese before except Frances raw Rockerfort. Legally Australia must allow some raw cheese into the country. Sadly Fromart need to make their own cheese from pasteurised dairy but their Swiss range is all raw. Buy the sample pack at $20 which includes postage and enjoy it with friends and wine, its great value and incredible delicious! www.fromart.com.au Kate
in last months issue of Nourished Mag there was a blog / article on Fromart cheese. These guys sell real RAW Swiss cheese and its absolutely delicious, satisfying and light! I bought some on line and I’m hooked. Never could eat cheese before except Frances raw Rockerfort. Legally Australia must allow some raw cheese into the country. Sadly Fromart need to make their own cheese from pasteurised dairy but their Swiss range is all raw. Buy the sample pack at $20 which includes postage and enjoy it with friends and wine, its great value and incredible delicious!

http://www.fromart.com.au

]]> By: Cathy Mifsud http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15279 Cathy Mifsud Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:25:03 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15279 Jad Are you talking about RAW or processed milk? The study you mentioned probably used processed milk. I doubt raw milk would be harmful and certainly not raw milk yogurt or kefir. The reason traditional cultures did so well consuming dairy is because it was raw and often fermented. Jad have you read Weston Price's " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" ? Anamika The work of Dr Weston Price is the very foundation of Nourished Magazine. Price travelled the world for 10 years studying in total 14 indigenous groups both isolated from civilization and once in contact. These isolated communities enjoyed perfect physical and mental health etc and non of these groups were vegetarian. Animal fats and proteins will help you and so will a daily dose of sunshine. Read Sally Fallon's " Nourishing Tradition" and Dr Weston A Price's " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration". Especially if you plan to have children. Jad
Are you talking about RAW or processed milk? The study you mentioned probably used processed milk.
I doubt raw milk would be harmful and certainly not raw milk yogurt or kefir. The reason traditional cultures did so well consuming dairy is because it was raw and often fermented.
Jad have you read Weston Price’s ” Nutrition and Physical Degeneration” ?

Anamika
The work of Dr Weston Price is the very foundation of Nourished Magazine. Price travelled the world for 10 years studying in total 14 indigenous groups both isolated from civilization and once in contact. These isolated communities enjoyed perfect physical and mental health etc and non of these groups were vegetarian.
Animal fats and proteins will help you and so will a daily dose of sunshine.
Read Sally Fallon’s ” Nourishing Tradition” and Dr Weston A Price’s ” Nutrition and Physical Degeneration”. Especially if you plan to have children.

]]> By: Cathy Mifsud http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15277 Cathy Mifsud Fri, 28 Nov 2008 06:30:58 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15277 Joseph the virgin coconut oil sold by Green Pastures www.greenpastures.com.au is delicous! The best oil I've tasted yet and my daughter loves it too! Joseph
the virgin coconut oil sold by Green Pastures http://www.greenpastures.com.au is delicous! The best oil I’ve tasted yet and my daughter loves it too!

]]> By: Jad http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15261 Jad Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:49:30 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15261 I imagine it would be the same. Milk is designed to help a baby to grow quick, so its natural it would provoke a hhigh insulin responses as insulin is out main growth hormone. If you have insulin resistance I would cut back on dairy foods for a while and see how you go. Butter and cream would be alright as it is the protein fractions of milk that cause the insulin release. Plenty of traditional cultures consumed dairy and appeared to be in great health, so consider it in the context of your whole diet and ancestry. They also however, regulalry and daily exercised. The masai consume huge amounts of milk, they also walk more in a day than the avg. westerner does in a week. Or if you really enjoy milk consume it within an hour after exercise, when our insulin senstivity is higher, the milk then will help to drive nutrients into the muscle cells. However, one thing I would suggest is that if you do drink a lot of milk then dont consume it with any wheat, and minimise the glycaemic load (Gl) of the rest of your diet. Cordains work regarding wheat and milk shows the two are probably not good together ! While I disagree with Sally and Enigs claims on a number or issues, their essential position that traditional cultures were healthy and thriving is a very good place to start with achieving good health. cheers, jad I imagine it would be the same. Milk is designed to help a baby to grow quick, so its natural it would provoke a hhigh insulin responses as insulin is out main growth hormone. If you have insulin resistance I would cut back on dairy foods for a while and see how you go. Butter and cream would be alright as it is the protein fractions of milk that cause the insulin release.
Plenty of traditional cultures consumed dairy and appeared to be in great health, so consider it in the context of your whole diet and ancestry. They also however, regulalry and daily exercised. The masai consume huge amounts of milk, they also walk more in a day than the avg. westerner does in a week.
Or if you really enjoy milk consume it within an hour after exercise, when our insulin senstivity is higher, the milk then will help to drive nutrients into the muscle cells.
However, one thing I would suggest is that if you do drink a lot of milk then dont consume it with any wheat, and minimise the glycaemic load (Gl) of the rest of your diet. Cordains work regarding wheat and milk shows the two are probably not good together !

While I disagree with Sally and Enigs claims on a number or issues, their essential position that traditional cultures were healthy and thriving is a very good place to start with achieving good health.
cheers, jad

]]> By: kate http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15246 kate Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:00:35 +0000 http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/insulin-resistance-the-real-culprit#comment-15246 Hi I posted my question somewhere else on this community and it was deleted, so I'm hoping someone can help. Does anyone know if raw dairy products increase insulin levels? Or is it only the commercial pasteurised dairy products? My naturopath showed me a AMA research study that showed that dairy products increased insulin almost as much as bread, despite dairy's low GI. I am just transitioning to the nourishing traditions lifestyle (have sourced my raw milk, still looking for raw cheese etc) and just want to be sure that raw dairy doesn't make insulin resistance worse as I have insulin resistance and pcos? Would love to hear others opinions. Thank you, Kate. Hi

I posted my question somewhere else on this community and it was deleted, so I’m hoping someone can help.

Does anyone know if raw dairy products increase insulin levels? Or is it only the commercial pasteurised dairy products?

My naturopath showed me a AMA research study that showed that dairy products increased insulin almost as much as bread, despite dairy’s low GI.

I am just transitioning to the nourishing traditions lifestyle (have sourced my raw milk, still looking for raw cheese etc) and just want to be sure that raw dairy doesn’t make insulin resistance worse as I have insulin resistance and pcos?

Would love to hear others opinions.

Thank you,

Kate.

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