Comments on: Grass Fed Meat: our true environmental savior

By: Elle Palmer

Elle Palmer — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:09:03 +0000

I realize that people in China eat SOME meat and dairy. It is a small part of the meal, where we in America are eating it as the main course three times a day!!!!!! Small amounts of meat and dairy are fine (the bodies immune system can recover from this). But most people are consuming mass amounts of animal products and the results are evident in our state of our health.
I have been vegan for 1 year and my mother has for 22 years - and mamy others that I know have been for years - no problems. Practically all of the people who are eating the typical american diet are taking prescription drugs and well on their way (if not there already) to getting sick and fat. Why would I base my eating choices on some group of children? I can read and study the facts on my own.

By: Jad

Jad — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 06:48:57 +0000

for an interesting rebuttal to the China Study check out this link
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

By: Karen

Karen — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:51:47 +0000

I’m half way through reading the ‘Ringing Cedars of Russia’ books, based on a woman called ‘Anastasia’, who lives in the Siberian forest.
She is described as being a very beautiful, intelligent, psychic, evolved woman with incredible mental and physical powers. Naturally I have been very interested in what she eats. On the surface it appears to be a raw vegan based diet. Cedar nuts, berries, herbs, grasses, dried mushrooms.. However she also consumes bee products and refers a lot to ‘living water’ and ‘living air’. She calls bottled mineral water ‘dead’ water. And the air we breathe as ‘dead’. She drinks her ‘living’ water from a forest lake (which I assume is full of lots of friendly bacteria), and makes many references to the pollen in the air, (living air) and breathing it in directly. She also eats her food immediately after picking it. She talks about the food’s ‘life-force’ or ethers, and how after 15 minutes of being picked, this life-force is gone. Every morning she swims in the lake, and then shakes the cedar trees so pollen falls all over her body and is rubbed and absorbed through the skin.

I would be extremely interested to know if K2 can somehow be formed from ‘alive’ plants, friendly bacteria and pollen (both of plant and bee variety). It is the only difference in her diet compared to many vegans I know or have read about. She thrives on it as does her very healthy son, which she gave birth to with joy and no pain.

Regardless of whether ‘Anastasia’ is a fictional character or not, I am intrigued by her diet, as it goes beyond what most vegans/vegetarians consume, and how they consume it. Perhaps the difference is that most vegans have no choice but to consume ‘dead’ water, ‘dead’ air, and cannot eat their veggies within 15 min of being picked. Who knows?
Got me thinking though. :-)

By: Marie (New & Nourishing)

Marie (New & Nourishing) — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:49:44 +0000

Hi Elle, I live in Asia and eat Chinese food all the time it is not vegan at all, most people who eat traditional Chinese food eat things like soups made from bone broths (fish and chicken.) they even put bone broth in porridge for breakfast. They do not waste anything here. The supermarkets are full of meat, seafood, chicken, duck, pork (very popular) and also they sell the bones, fish heads, and livers, gizzards pig fat (for lard) etc. When you see a plate of vegetables here you can be assured it was cooked in a bone broth or lard :) For instance Prawn Noodle Soup (one of my favourites) is made with fish stock, from fish bones and heads, then you boil the prawns and shell them, then the shells along with the prawn heads are mashed in a wok and fried in lard with garlic and ginger then added to the broth. After cooking the whole thing is strained, then you add rice noodles and the prawns and some greens - it’s awesome and nothing is wasted! adding a little coconut milk also makes it a rich soup (for any-one who was thinking of trying this.)

I remember when some-one found photos of a factory worker in china on their iPhone. Every-one was talking about how pretty she was and on one forums I noticed the comment “Wow, she must have a great dental plan” - I responded “duh, thats what you teeth look like when you eat natural whole foods your whole life.”

By: Jad

Jad — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:30:47 +0000

generally once a culture adopts a grain based diet the level of decay increases dramatically. This has been demonstrated time and time again in history.
Read the various reviews on the china diet study if you want more information on how biased some of the study was.

By: Cathy Mifsud

Cathy Mifsud — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 03:18:12 +0000

Some time ago I asked one of my vegan friends in an e mail, who’s 2 yo’s boys teeth were browning, if she knew of any vegan children with good teeth? My friend answered a few days later with “No” and that she thought this was very worrying but still now, about 5 months later they are still vegan, trying very hard to fix the problem in a vegan diet. Since then I have met many vegan’s in my new play group and I can see it for myself. It is very sad.
Elle, if veganism was healthy these Kids would be an example of that health and they aren’t. My daughter is the example of good health. Maybe you could come join us next time we all gather for play group? Do you live anywhere near Castlemaine? This way you can see for yourself the difference between Nina and the vegan children.
This is not just a rare case of dental problems because any case of decay in the first set of teeth is extreme. Only under absolute extreme conditions will decay surface in the first set of teeth. Veganism, with its good intentions is robbing these children of a healthy.
Elle, how long have you been vegan?

By: Elle Palmer

Elle Palmer — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 23:33:49 +0000

In places like China and Africa, millions of children grow up eating plant based diets. I don’t think they have tooth decay there. I would guess that you are seeing a rare case of dental problems in the circle of friends you have. It’s just plain science. The studies are out there. Vegan diet is the healthiest choice.

By: Cathy Mifsud

Cathy Mifsud — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:08:26 +0000

Alana and Nina I really enjoyed reading your posts, thanks heaps!

Nina your Jersey milk was so delicious, Nina and Sian drank the whole bottle yesterday! Thanks again.

By: Cathy Mifsud

Cathy Mifsud — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:04:45 +0000

Hi Elle
I’ve never known any vegan’s that eat french fries or drink kool aid. The vegan children I am talking about that have decaying teeth are fed the highest quality of foods. Junk food is not the cause of the decay. These children were also full term breast fed. A vegan child I know at 6 yo has teeth decayed to the gum line. This child is also first born to parents that eat only organic/biodynamic wholefoods except there was sugar in their diets. The effort these families go through to feed their children is enormous and they are trying very hard to solve the problem of decay. Its those fat soluble vitamins that are missing, A,D and K2 without these our bodies can’t assimilate minerals from our food properly.
A vegan friend of mine explained to me recently that her families teeth were worse than those kids of meat eating coke drinking families. Her children ate mostly healthy organic wholefoods vegan but recently have added raw milk and cod liver oil to their diets out of desperation.
Organic whole foods including meat and dairy ( raw milk ) are certainly benefitting my daughter, she is truly thriving and it stands out.
We are all trying to do what is best for our children, ourselves, animals and our environment.
I hope I didn’t offend you in my last post, I didn’t mean to do that. In my vegan friends I see similar signs of nutritional deficiencies happening which I experienced myself. People tried to tell me my vegan diet was hurting me but I always got very defensive and frightened them off.
We eventually work it out for ourselves but maybe with internet and groups like Nourished we’ll solve these problems more sooner than later.

By: Nina Grundner

Nina Grundner — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:36:28 +0000

Elle,
While it is true that 18% of GHG are due to factory farmed cattle, this is not what anyone here is promoting or advocating. Feedlot cattle are fed grain and so, not only is the production of this meat bad for the environment, the meat itself is not healthy for human consumption.

Pastured cattle on the other hand actually vastly increases the soil’s carbon content via carbon sequestration (which pulls CO2 out of the air and puts carbon in the soil and O2 in the air).

People in Asia, however generalised this statement is, may not eat “our rich Western diet”, but again nobody here is advocating to eat what “our rich Western diet” has come to stand for,. i.e. white sugar, white flour, meat produced from feeding animals food that is not designed for them, pasteurised milk and milk products and denatured and tocix vegetable oils and margerines. This is a very poor diet and indeed is unhealthy and causes a vast array of modern “western” diseases.

I am sure we weren’t put here to depend on cows milk either, but after thousands of years we have learnt to herd cattle, sheep, goats, buffalo, horses and other animals and have started drinking their milk, perhaps out of pure desperation for nourishment. After years and years of doing some of us evolved to be lactose tolerant and tribes and nations evolved around their raw and fermented dairy products. We have become to rely and thrive on them and their great benefits to our bodies. Raw milk is completely different to what you commonly buy in the supermarket as pasteurised and homogenised, which truly is bad for you. Studies have been done in which calves have been fed pasteurised cows milk and while many of them did very poorly on it, many of them even died.

I used to be a vegan and vegetarian for many years because of “ethical” reasons, campaigning for the animals rights and I am horrified at how animals are being treated in mass-meat production factories. It is unethical, immoral and terribly sad that these places exist. We, ourselves, are working on being an example of ethically raised pastured meat, treated with respect and kindness. We see our little herd of cattle in the pasture and are grateful to them. Sure, they don’t want to die to be eaten by us, but neither do the all the animals that are being killed when the rain forrests are cleared (emitting vast amounts of CO2), the ground is poisoned with acidic fertiliser, which destroys microbes and earthworms (and emits vast amounts of CO2) sprayed with herbicides and pesticides (What is a pest, if not an animal that we deem unwanted?), the land being thrashed and the fertility destroyed by harrowing and plowing as a direct consequence of feeding vegetarians.

There is a great little book “Quarterly Essay: Now or Never” by a very insightful paleontologist, mammalogist and global warming activist, called Tim Flannery, who also wrote “The Weathermakers” and was called Australian of the year in 2008 for his insights. It is an eye opening read I would recommend to anyone claiming that we weren’t designed to eat meat.
Kindly, Nina.